How one can Make Even MORE Money Movement Off Your Rental Properties

David Greene:
That is the BiggerPockets Podcast. What’s happening everybody? It’s David Greene, your host of the BiggerPockets Actual Property podcast, coming to you from Kauai, and that’s one of many issues I really like about actual property is I get to convey you guys questions from our listener base from in every single place on the planet. My hope is that extra of you may get to the identical place and we’re going to share some recommendation at this time that can provide help to just do that. As we speak’s Seeing Greene episode has plenty of great things, together with what a house fairness settlement is and if one needs to be used. One of the best methods to reinvest the cashflow that you just’re making out of your present portfolio at this time and the way you need to be excited about it and a stay name with certainly one of our listeners the place we commute.
Serving to them decide if they need to take the cash they’ve made in actual property and enhance the properties they’ve or if they need to purchase new properties and if that’s the case, what to be excited about when going backwards and forwards with that call. Lots of people in at this time’s market have fairness and so they’re making an attempt to determine how they need to use it, and typically meaning shopping for extra actual property, however typically meaning bettering the true property they’ve. I particularly like this matter as a result of lots of people have fairness and so they’re tapping into it with HELOCs, however they’re undecided if they need to use that HELOC cash to scale into a much bigger portfolio or enhance what they’ve acquired. So we deal with that and extra on at this time’s episode of Seeing Greene.
We’re going to herald our first visitor in a second, however earlier than we do a fast tip for you all. You’re going to listen to extra about it within the subsequent query, however I’m a agency believer, particularly when you’ve acquired a short-term rental that tapping into your fairness and utilizing that cash to enhance the property, enhance the decor, add facilities to it, make it look nicer, get higher photos taken, is a fast solution to get a return in your capital that may then be used to pay the fairness line of credit score again down. I don’t love in at this time’s market taking $200,000 out of a home at a reasonably excessive rate of interest and utilizing that for the down cost on a property that you just then should get one other mortgage for the opposite 80% and stacking up debt when charges are larger.
I’m a a lot greater fan of a get in and get out technique, sort of like utilizing a jet ski as an alternative of a battleship. Take out some fairness, repair up your own home, enhance the income, after which pay the fairness mortgage off with that income after which, ask your self how you are able to do it once more. How will you recycle that very same 20 or $30,000 to enhance the properties you’ve acquired and win within the short-term rental wars? All proper, let’s get to our first visitor at this time. Let’s welcome Stacie to the studio. Stacie, welcome to Seeing Greene. A little bit little bit of background about you. You’ve acquired a single household property, a duplex, and a bit of property within the Austin space, in New Braunfels, Texas. So shaggy dog story right here, I nearly invested in New Braunfels myself about 5 years in the past and need I’d have, as a result of I’d have accomplished very properly.
I fell prey to that very same downside of, properly, once I first heard about it was this a lot and now it’s $50,000 extra. I don’t wish to get in too late and made the identical mistake that I inform everyone else to not make as a result of I discovered it in that instance. So congratulations on doing the best do and having a New Braunfels property. So, inform us what’s in your thoughts at this time.

Stacie:
Thanks. Sure, so contemplating these properties we’ve and our long-term technique of purchase and maintain, which we’re a 100% in on, so we’ve this property in New Braunfels. We really purchased it website unseen and it was an excellent buy for us. It’s zoned multifamily. It’s one block from the Guadalupe River, so it has a single household dwelling on there the place we’ve a long-term renter, however we’ve the chance to develop it as a result of it’s already zoned for multifamily. It’s half an acre lot. Then, we’ve this plot, this quarter acre plot in Lago Vista close to Lake Travis that was given to us from household that additionally has growth alternative.
So we’ve these two properties that we personal, which have growth alternatives, but additionally, we’re tempted to purchase our subsequent funding property. So we’re on the level of making an attempt to determine will we keep the course, depart these properties as is as a result of we’ve a long-term renter in New Braunfels, we’re money flowing about $600 a month there, so it’s properly paying for itself after which some. Then, we’ve this lot that’s simply sitting there vacant that we’re making an attempt to determine what to do with. Our duplex in South Austin is money flowing about $2,100 a month. So we’ve two long-term leases there. We’re not seeking to develop or do something with that proper now. So we’re at that sort of inflection level.
Will we purchase our subsequent funding property or is now the time that we really do some compelled fairness and develop the New Braunfels property or construct one thing in Lago Vista?

David Greene:
Alrighty.

Rob:
My first query right here is what’s the purpose that you just wish to get into the following property? Is the explanation you wish to get into the following property merely for the sake of progress and also you’re like, “Hey, I simply wish to add to the portfolio. I don’t really want the money move,” or do you wish to get into one other property since you need extra cash move since you want an additional couple of hundred bucks each month?

Stacie:
We don’t want the additional money each month. We wish to develop the portfolio and we additionally wish to make investments type of, I do know it’s not about timing the markets, time in market, but it surely nonetheless seems like now is an effective time earlier than everyone seems to be again available in the market, ought to charges come down. So we’re sort of feeling that, eager to get the following property as a result of we do wish to develop the portfolio, but additionally, when is it time to truly develop these properties that we’re sitting on too? So we’re sort of don’t know which solution to go essentially.

Rob:
I feel when you’re not pressed for the money move and also you’ve acquired rather a lot and also you’ve acquired a property that’s zoned for extra property, I’m a giant fan of constructing as many streams of revenue off of 1 property as potential. So, when you’ve got the steam and when you’ve got type of the dedication and I assume the open thoughts to simply undergo a brand new development, then I feel you need to do it. A giant fan, I really assume that new development is simply one of the simplest ways to fight plenty of issues which might be occurring proper now as a result of sure, you may be getting one thing at the next curiosity when you purchase a property. So for me, I’m like, I feel when you can go and construct one thing at your value with out the markup of somebody … when you go and purchase a brand new development off of Redfin, you’re paying their value and also you’re paying a premium for it, proper?
So when you can go and construct one thing at your value, it’s not likely that very same markup as getting it off the MLS and once you refi out and get your cash out, you’ll have the next rate of interest on that in fact, but it surely gained’t damage fairly as unhealthy as having gone and bought a property straight off the MLS, if that is sensible. So when you’ve got the power to attend it out for let’s say 12 to 18 months, then I undoubtedly assume constructing from the bottom up is a very sensible factor to do proper now.

David Greene:
All proper. I’ll weigh in on this too. I really like the query. It comes up rather a lot the place I stay within the Bay Space, you usually see this in dearer areas, the place the query is do I construct an ADU or do I purchase a brand new home? And the tough factor is you’ll be able to’t finance the construct. For those who may finance the construct, it might nearly at all times be a simple, “Yeah, simply enhance the property you’ve acquired.” The issue is you bought to place plenty of capital right down to do it. So I prefer to attempt to simplify this turning into apples to apples as a lot as I can. And I requested the query of, for the capital I’m going to place into this factor, how a lot money move am I going to obtain?
What’s the ROI on that and the way a lot fairness am I going to construct? What’s the return on funding on that? So when you have been so as to add to the property that you have already got, how a lot cash would it’s a must to put down to do that and do you assume it might improve the fairness

Stacie:
For the New Braunfels property, we in all probability must put down about 200,000 in capital to construct an ADU, at the least an ADU, proper? A prefab ADU would in all probability be about 200,000, all in. For the Lago Vista property, we’re taking a look at in all probability 250 upwards to half 1,000,000 of capital to place in to develop that property, as a result of it’s uncooked land, it’s going to require much more clearance and work to get that property prepared for constructing. So I don’t assume we’d do each on the similar time. I feel we’re sort of anxious to essentially have a look at … I feel the New Braunfels property has essentially the most potential as a result of it’s such a rising space and the placement of it’s prime, being a block from the Guadalupe River. So I feel there’s plenty of upside to growing New Braunfels from all that I can inform.

David Greene:
So when you put the $200,000 into New Braunfels, would you add fairness to the property?

Stacie:
Sure, I imagine we’d add fairness to the property.

David Greene:
How a lot do you assume you’d be including?

Stacie:
I feel we in all probability can be including … we purchased it two years in the past. Now we have in all probability about … I’m going to say about 40,000 in fairness in simply the previous two years within the property. So if we add an ADU, we’d additionally should configure the entrance home a bit too to place the ADU in. I don’t know, however I’m going to guess that we’d in all probability add about … instantly a couple of hundred, 150,000 in fairness in that property. Does that sound about proper, the numbers I’ve shared?

David Greene:
I don’t know the realm. Yeah, it may. It may work. What in regards to the money move? For those who construct an ADU for $200,000, what is going to it hire for?

Stacie:
Yeah, as a result of proper now, we’re renting, all in P and I is like 1800. 18, 1900 we’re renting for 25 on the only household dwelling, so we’ve acquired good money move there. We will construct as much as 1,000 sq. foot ADU with out it being thought of a second principal construction on the property. So 1,000 sq. foot, we may in all probability hire that, I’m going to say round 18, 1900 in at this time’s marketplace for 1,000 sq. ft.

David Greene:
Okay. Would this improve the property taxes on the property when you add to this work, make it value extra?

Stacie:
Most probably.

David Greene:
After which the place are they at New Braunfels like two and a half p.c or so?

Stacie:
No, it’s proper round 2%. It’s like 1.97, one thing like that. Yeah.

David Greene:
So that may be a fairly wholesome return. I imply, you’re having extra property taxes and there’s going to be extra insurance coverage, however nonetheless, I imagine you stated it was 1800, you assume that you just’d hire it for?

Stacie:
Sure.

David Greene:
So let’s say you retain say, 1400 of that to speculate 200,000. That’s not a foul deal there. You’re not too far off from the 1% rule. The draw back can be you’re spending $200,000 so as to add $100,000 of fairness, so that you’re really dropping fairness in a way since you’re transferring that cash out of your checking account into the property. You’re going to lose $100,000 of worth there, however you’re going to achieve the additional money move of say, $1,400 a month or $1,300 a month. Now, right here’s why I framed it that means. I feel your job right here, Stacie, is to ask your self with this $200,000, if I put it into a distinct funding car, may I get higher than say 13 or $1,400 a month and keep away from dropping a $100,000 of fairness? May you place $200,000 into constructing a brand new dwelling development that you just may acquire $100,000 of fairness on the finish as an alternative of dropping it?
That’s a $200,000 swing, or perhaps you get higher money move, perhaps the money move isn’t nearly as good, however you don’t lose as a lot fairness. Have you ever regarded into alternatives like that?

Stacie:
I haven’t, no.

David Greene:
Okay. That’s how my thoughts goes to it. What when you paid money for one thing that was $200,000, perhaps a fixer higher, you fastened it up after which, you refinanced out of it, you would do it once more, or you would purchase 1,000,000 greenback property, put $200,000 down, so that you’ve acquired these. In my thoughts, you’ve acquired the three choices. You place it as a down cost on one thing, you pay money for one thing otherwise you put it into the property you will have. Rob, what are you pondering?

Rob:
Yeah, I assume I’d actually wish to … and we’re not going to have the ability to clear up for this on this episode sadly, however I’d wish to know what sort of fairness we’d be including as a result of I feel it’s, I’m not going to say uncommon, however I really feel like when you’re constructing one thing in your property equivalent to an ADU or a secondary unit, I really feel just like the fairness that you just’re constructing needs to be fairly commensurate with the amount of cash that you just’re investing, proper? So it’s like I feel when you have been going to spend 200 however you’re solely getting a $100,000 in fairness, then yeah, I’d agree with David. I in all probability wouldn’t try this.
I’d go discover someplace the place I’d get the one for one ratio on that, however I do surprise when you would get that full fairness out of including an addition to the property. If the reply is sure, I’d go that route after which construct it after which, do a cash-out refi and attempt to get as a lot of that cash again, as a result of when you try this and also you get a reasonably significant slice of your a refund, then your ROI skyrockets in that time. I’m a giant fan of this technique solely since you get to stack revenue streams on one property and it actually makes an enormous distinction. I had a property in LA. After I purchased it, it was $400 mortgage. I’ve since refinanced, it’s like 4,200 now, however I now hire out the principle dwelling, which works for … anyplace from 3,500 to $5,000 a month.
I’ve acquired an ADU within the yard that goes for anyplace from 2300 to $3,000 a month, and I also have a third unit that I don’t hire out, however I used to, and that was one other $2,000 for that unit. So once you added all of it up, it was like $8,000 on one property and your revenue margins on which might be simply so wholesome. Your landscaping payments are all consolidated to that one property. Your entire payments are simply consolidated into this one enterprise, and that’s why I’m a giant fan of build up mainly as many revenue streams on one property as potential, assuming that your fairness that you just put in is one for one on the funding that you just put in.

David Greene:
That’s the important thing there, Stacie. I don’t love the deal when you’re placing in more cash than you’re gaining in fairness. Listening to that, what’s going via your thoughts.

Stacie:
Yeah. No, that makes a ton of sense. I’m not 100% on all of the numbers. That is so far as I’ve been capable of get, however I’ll dig deeper by way of the precise fairness we’d have the ability to get out of that property. Yeah, and simply to throw a curveball right here, proper? Our home in Los Angeles, we’re within the San Fernando Valley, we’re in Encino up within the hills. That’s why my web is somewhat spotty. I imply, we have been initially going to maintain this home and promote it or not promote it, however use that as type of our funding property right here, hire it out. Our newest pondering was to promote this home to purchase extra properties in Texas.
So we’re making an attempt to deal with all of our houses as type of a part of the portfolio and the way will we leverage them to the utmost, and I do know David, you’re up in Northern California, however I don’t know, we have been type of beginning to assume that we simply wished to get out of California.

David Greene:
Stunning. I’ve by no means heard anyone say this.

Stacie:
Yeah, by no means, proper?

David Greene:
Yeah. It’s one thing to consider since you in all probability have plenty of fairness there. I don’t assume it might profit you to promote it and put the cash into Texas, except you recognize the place you’re going to place the cash, and it sounds such as you acquired to determine that downside out first. The place are we going to deploy our capital and the way are we going to deploy it? I don’t assume it’s going to be so simple as let’s simply construct onto what we have already got. There could also be one thing the place I’d wish to take a few of that money and search for a means to purchase one thing that was perhaps distressed that I may repair up and add worth to it, though it’s not unhealthy constructing an ADU in that space the place you recognize you’re going to have tenants, you recognize the values are going to be going up.
It’s not going to harm you. I simply hate these excessive Texas property taxes, proper? If the property worth does go up, these taxes damage out of the money move you’d be getting.

Stacie:
They do, and insurance coverage goes up too, in order that’s yearly, steadily insurance coverage goes up.

David Greene:
That’s proper. Effectively, thanks Stacie. This was a great query. I feel increasingly individuals are asking this query as a result of charges are excessive, so it’s not an computerized, sure, I ought to go purchase one other property. Now, the charges are getting actually excessive. It’s exhausting to make them money move. So we’re beginning to ask questions like this, so thanks for bringing this up.

Stacie:
Thanks guys.

David Greene:
Thanks, Stacie.

Rob:
Thanks.

David Greene:
All proper, thanks Stacie for becoming a member of us at this time. I simply dropped Rob off at a Chipotle, so I’ll be flying solo for the remainder of at this time’s episode, however large thanks to Rob for becoming a member of. I used to be so appreciative that I really left him with a greenback so he may get some further guac on that burrito that he loves a lot. His tip for getting essentially the most out of 1 property is a good takeaway and I recognize him sharing that. If you need to have Rob and I, or me or anybody else within the BP universe reply your particular questions, head over to biggerpockets.com/david the place you’ll be able to submit them and that can make me such as you. For those who’ve submitted a query to Seeing Greene, you’ll be able to think about your self my pal, and after we see one another at BP Con, I’ll take an image with you, hug you and say one thing good.
I hope you’re getting some worth out of at this time’s dialog and our listener questions to this point, however we’ve acquired extra developing after this part. I prefer to take a minute in the midst of our exhibits to share feedback that you just all have left on YouTube or once you evaluation the podcast. Our first evaluation comes from 1981 South Bay. “Love the Seeing Greene episodes. I really like these episodes and it’s an incredible addition to have Rob on the sequence. My spouse and I’ve been listening to Greater Pockets for 2 years. We lastly simply purchased our first two duplexes and are planning to accumulate extra properties. We couldn’t have accomplished it with out this podcast and the group. Thanks, David, Rob, and your entire BP group.”
Effectively, thanks South Bay for a five-star evaluation. That’s freaking superior. I hope a few of our listeners go and observe your lead and in addition, when you’re within the South Bay of the Northern California Bay Space, we’re mainly neighbors. I stay about an hour away from you, so just be sure you attain out on Instagram. Let me know you’re the one who left that remark and let’s see, if we are able to get you coming as much as a number of the meetups that I do in Northern California. We’ve acquired some feedback right here from the Seeing Greene episode 840 that got here straight off of the YouTube channel. The primary one comes from Dan Cohan. “Thanks for sharing this superior video. I actually relate to the struggles of estimating renovation prices, particularly once you’re investing in actual property from far-off.” After which Laura Peffer added, “Sure, please do a whole present on To Money Movement or To not Money move.”
Effectively, you’ve spoken and we’ve listened. We really did document a present on when it’s okay or perhaps not okay to purchase non-cash flowing properties and I’ll speak to our manufacturing employees about placing a present collectively that claims, is money move the one purpose to spend money on actual property or is it okay to not spend money on it? Perhaps we’ll have a backwards and forwards the place we’ve the money move defenders and the appreciation avengers or nonetheless we’re going to name that. In case you missed it, return and hearken to episode 853, which was launched on December sixth the place we break down three unfavorable cashflow offers. All proper, let’s get into the following query. All proper, our subsequent query comes from Roy Gottsteiner. He’s a overseas nationwide dwelling overseas, so he’s having a troublesome time getting financing.
He can solely get 60 to 65% mortgage to worth ratios and no entry to merchandise like FHA or HELOC. Roy began 4 years in the past investing in North Carolina and Ohio and presently has a portfolio of 10 single-family housing leases. He does primarily BRRR and long-term conventional leases and lately began performing some medium phrases. Roy says, “Hello David. These episodes are extraordinarily useful and are serving to me to continually alter my pondering based mostly on the present market dynamics in addition to my very own place within the investing journey, so thanks for every thing. I constructed a portfolio of 10 models, which cashflow two to $3,000 a month. I’m 35 and I’ve an incredible job, so I don’t want this revenue and intend to reinvest all of it.”
“I’m making an attempt to think about one of the simplest ways to make use of that cash to additional improve my progress in direction of monetary independence. Right here’s some choices I had in thoughts, however glad to listen to your ideas. If there’s the rest I must be pondering of. Investing it repeatedly right into a inventory index and greenback value averaging for a long-term maintain. Greenback value averaging mainly means you simply hold shopping for inventory even when the value is dropping. It’s humorous that we got here up with this phrase, greenback value averaging to say, properly simply hold shopping for even when the value goes decrease as a result of finally it’s going to go up and you should have purchased it at a decrease common than the costs once they have been excessive. Quantity two, paying off mortgages on my funding properties to scale back leverage and improve cashflow.”
“Quantity three, save the cash and take a look at discovering a artistic finance take care of a 30,000 greenback entry every year. My final buy was a sub two with a 42,000 greenback entry, and it was an incredible one. Wanting ahead to your sage recommendation.” All proper, thanks for that query. I recognize that. I can reply this one fairly fast. I don’t love the thought of paying off your mortgages, particularly as a result of when you purchased them and you’ve got 10 of them, they in all probability have fairly low charges proper now, so that you’re not saving a ton of cash doing that. You additionally should pay a ton of mortgage off earlier than you really don’t should make the cost when it’s owned free and clear, so that you don’t actually see the return on that cash for years.
It may be 10, 15, 20 years of making an attempt to pay these items off earlier than you really do away with that curiosity in your mortgage. So what is going to occur is you’ll construct the fairness in it sooner, however you gained’t put cash in your financial institution sooner. So I don’t love that concept and I don’t love investing into the inventory index, as a result of I don’t wish to give recommendation about one thing that I don’t actually perceive and I don’t know that there’s any stable recommendation I may give anyone in relation to investing in shares. I additionally simply assume you’ll do higher with actual property long run. So your third choice, saving the cash and looking for a artistic finance deal just like the one you probably did final time is fairly good.
And right here’s why I like that. For those who don’t discover the artistic finance deal, you simply have extra reserves and also you’re by no means going to search out me upset about somebody who has plenty of reserves, particularly contemplating the financial system that we’re going into. Previously, success was all about scaling and buying. What number of doorways are you able to get? That was the cocktail get together brag, I’ve this many doorways. Sooner or later, I imagine, it’s going to be, what can you retain? How will you maintain on to the true property you’ve already purchased? And reserves could be a large think about saving you there. All proper, transferring into our subsequent query. This comes from Chris Lloyd in Hampton Roads, Virginia.

Chris Lloyd:
Hey David. My title is Chris Lloyd from Newport Information, Virginia. And right here’s my query. I presently have a property I used to be seeking to renovate and I plan to fund this renovation utilizing a HELOC. I’ve acquired two properties with some good fairness in it and I came upon lately that I can’t qualify for a HELOC as a result of I’ve been self-employed for lower than two years. Took my enterprise full-time somewhat over a 12 months in the past. So I’ve been wanting in different methods to finance this undertaking and got here throughout dwelling fairness agreements. This isn’t one thing I’ve actually heard talked about on the podcast and I used to be questioning if there was a purpose why. If this can be a newer product, if it’s simply getting traction or if this product is absolute junk, I don’t know. So I’m asking what situations would this make sense for somebody to make use of and when and would it not not make sense?

David Greene:
All proper, Chris, thanks for that query. Admire it. My recommendation can be, no, I don’t assume you need to tackle a house fairness settlement except you’re in dire monetary straits. And even in case you are, I’d in all probability want that you just offered the home, took your fairness and moved on to one thing else. All proper, our final query goes to return from Nick Lynch and it’s a video query.

Nick Lynch:
Hey David, that is Nick Lynch from Sacramento, California. Thanks for every thing that you just and BiggerPockets do. I really like you man’s content material. I’m hoping to purchase my first dwelling within the larger Sacramento space of California when my present lease ends April thirtieth of 2024. My query for you is what can be the perfect technique to get in to my first dwelling and into investing on the similar time, given how excessive the costs are in California. I’m contemplating home hacking, home hopping, or just shopping for a major residence I’m snug dwelling in long-term and utilizing the rest of the fund that may have after a down cost to perhaps spend money on out-of-state property that might capital extra simply.
My largest concern with home hacking or home hopping in California, that the property is so costly, it might take a really massive down cost to get these properties to money move even after dwelling in them for a few years. Thanks, David. Admire the assistance.

David Greene:
All proper, Nick, glad you reached out. We really do plenty of enterprise within the David Greene workforce within the Sacramento space, and we assist folks with stuff like this on a regular basis. The important thing to deal with hacking isn’t about paying the mortgage down or shopping for an inexpensive dwelling. The important thing to deal with hacking efficiently, and by that I imply transferring out of it and having it money for later. What I usually name the sneaky rental tactic as a result of you may get a rental property for five% down or three level a half p.c down as an alternative of 20% down when you stay in it first, is discovering an precise property with a flooring plan that may work. We’ve helped shoppers do that by shopping for properties with a excessive bed room and loo rely as a result of that’s extra models that they’ll create to generate income.
We’ve additionally had those who we’ve helped doing this once they hire out a part of the house as a short-term rental or a flooring plan that may be moved round the place partitions are added to create a couple of unit within the property itself. The secret’s to not give attention to the bills and conserving them low, however to give attention to the revenue and getting it excessive. So once you’re on the lookout for the property, what you actually wish to do is search for a flooring plan that both has plenty of bedrooms and bogs and has adequate parking and can be in an space that folks wish to hire from, otherwise you wish to search for a flooring plan the place the basement that you would stay in and also you hire out perhaps two models above or two models above and it has an ADU.
One thing the place you may get rather more income coming in on the property which you will have extra management over. I name that compelled cashflow than a property that you just simply purchased at a cheaper price as a result of that’s not life like. For those who’re making an attempt to purchase in a excessive appreciation market like Northern California the place wages are excessive and the market is powerful, you might be much less more likely to discover a low cost home. Attain out to me straight and I’ll see if we can assist you with that and begin taking a look at properties with essentially the most sq. footage after which, asking your self, how may I manipulate and maneuver the sq. footage to the place this may be a great home hack. Nice query although, and I want you the perfect in your endeavors.
All proper, everybody that’s Seeing Greene for at this time, I so recognize you being right here with me and giving me your consideration and permitting me to assist educate you on actual property investing and rising wealth via actual property as a result of I’m keen about it and I really like you guys. I actually hope I used to be capable of assist a few of you courageous souls who took the motion and ask me the questions that I used to be capable of reply for everybody else. And I stay up for answering extra of your questions. Go to biggerpockets.com/david and submit your query to be on Seeing Greene. Hope you guys loved at this time’s present and I’ll see you on the following episode of Seeing Greene.